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鋼琴家蒂木爾·穆斯塔基莫夫?yàn)槲覀兎瞰I(xiàn)了一場(chǎng)極為精彩的演出，沒(méi)有能夠來(lái)到現(xiàn)場(chǎng)的朋友，實(shí)在有些遺憾。不過(guò)當(dāng)您看了我們對(duì)穆斯塔基莫夫先生的訪談后，或許這種遺憾一方面會(huì)更大，因?yàn)槟滤顾蛳壬幕卮鸪錆M知識(shí)與智慧，那么他的演奏也自然更加令人期待；另一方面，這些回答給我們非常多啟發(fā)，所以也可以略為彌補(bǔ)一下不能親臨現(xiàn)場(chǎng)的遺憾。

這兩天在北京采訪了青年鋼琴家、作曲家與茱莉亞音樂(lè)學(xué)院在讀學(xué)生阿布，我們很謹(jǐn)慎問(wèn)了他一個(gè)關(guān)于古典音樂(lè)與爵士樂(lè)在思想深度上的差異問(wèn)題，本以為這個(gè)問(wèn)題可能有些冒犯，但阿布的回答很直接：相對(duì)古典音樂(lè)的沉思性而言，爵士樂(lè)的確要更具娛樂(lè)性。

之所以提到這個(gè)，是因?yàn)楫?dāng)我們讀完穆斯塔基莫夫先生的訪談后，一方面覺(jué)得古典鋼琴演奏家說(shuō)出的話，真的充滿哲理；另一方面，我們也更明白，古典音樂(lè)的確因?yàn)樽约旱呢S富性，特別是對(duì)美的追求的苛刻，很難具有很強(qiáng)的娛樂(lè)性。在今天這樣一個(gè)泛娛樂(lè)化的時(shí)代，無(wú)論是古典音樂(lè)學(xué)習(xí)者還是欣賞者，都應(yīng)該多一份冷靜，多追求一點(diǎn)深刻，不要為了迎合大眾而迎合大眾，這樣反而更長(zhǎng)遠(yuǎn)。

就好像這次訪談，我們相信過(guò)個(gè)二三十年，到那時(shí)或許穆斯塔基莫夫先生早已是偉大鋼琴家的時(shí)候，仍舊顯得有價(jià)值，那就不枉費(fèi)音樂(lè)文獻(xiàn)編譯組此刻的努力了。

*本次訪談主要圍繞著對(duì)7月10日穆斯塔基莫夫先生在#郎園vintage#舉辦的音樂(lè)會(huì)展開(kāi)，在這場(chǎng)音樂(lè)會(huì)上他演奏了李斯特的《夜之和諧》、布索尼改編的巴赫《D小調(diào)恰空舞曲》、斯克里亞賓的《第三鋼琴奏鳴曲》以及穆索爾斯基《圖畫(huà)展覽館》等作品，其細(xì)膩精準(zhǔn)的情感色彩把控和激情的演奏贏得了滿場(chǎng)歡呼。

穆斯塔基莫夫

俄羅斯鋼琴家

 Well, first of all, I’m very glad that you find it magnificent! I can’t agree more with this—all of those pieces are absolutely my favorite ones, and there are some inner connections within the program. 

首先，你能發(fā)現(xiàn)這些作品很宏大，對(duì)此我感到很欣慰！我非常同意這一點(diǎn)，所有我在音樂(lè)會(huì)上演奏的曲目都是深得我心的。其實(shí)這些曲目之間也有一些內(nèi)在聯(lián)系。

For example, there is a connection between the Liszt etude “Harmonies du Soire” and Bach/Busoni. It’s a historical connection, not musical. Busoni was a famous Italian virtuoso who was a pupil of Liszt. Busoni carries some features and aspects of the Liszt school, if I would say.

例如，李斯特的《夜之和諧》（Transcendental Etude No. 11 in D flat major “Harmonies du soir”, S. 139F）與布索尼改編版的巴赫《D小調(diào)恰空舞曲》（“Chaconne” No. 2 in D minor from the Violin Partita, BWV 1004）之間有聯(lián)系。這兩者存在的聯(lián)系是歷史性的，而非音樂(lè)性。布索尼是意大利著名的演奏家，他是李斯特的學(xué)生。我認(rèn)為布索尼音樂(lè)中暗含著李斯特學(xué)派的一些特點(diǎn)。

布索尼

There is another connection between Liszt “Harmonies du Soire” and Scriabin Sonata. There are ambiguous harmonies and very complicated harmonic language. I think in the Liszt Etude we can see that he was not only a great virtuoso but a visionary, so he was predicting a very advanced harmonic language that we’ll see later in the 19th century.

李斯特降D大調(diào)第11號(hào)超技練習(xí)曲 《夜之和諧》與斯克里亞賓《第三鋼琴奏鳴曲》（Piano Sonata No. 3 in F sharp minor, Op. 23）之間存在著另一種（音樂(lè)性上的）聯(lián)系。這兩首曲目的和聲非常具有模糊性且和聲語(yǔ)言十分復(fù)雜。我認(rèn)為在李斯特練習(xí)曲中，我們可以看到，他不僅是一個(gè)偉大的演奏家，而且是一個(gè)有遠(yuǎn)見(jiàn)的人，所以當(dāng)時(shí)他的音樂(lè)中預(yù)示了一種非常先進(jìn)的和聲語(yǔ)言，這種和聲語(yǔ)言我們?cè)?9世紀(jì)晚期才領(lǐng)略。

穆斯塔基莫夫

俄羅斯鋼琴家

I studied with Vladimir for four years. It was a wonderful experience for me, he’s a fantastic pianist, and a wonderful teacher. What I learned from him is I remember how he once said that a good teacher is a teacher who makes himself useless at some point. 

我跟弗拉基米爾學(xué)習(xí)了四年。對(duì)我來(lái)說(shuō)跟他學(xué)琴是段美妙的經(jīng)歷，他是一個(gè)很棒的鋼琴家，一個(gè)很棒的老師。我從他身上學(xué)到的是，他曾經(jīng)說(shuō)過(guò)，“好老師應(yīng)該在恰當(dāng)?shù)臅r(shí)機(jī)學(xué)會(huì)無(wú)為而治（ makes himself useless ）”。

弗拉基米爾·費(fèi)爾茲曼

I think that’s the ultimate goal of great mentorship—when you are able to be on your own—and I feel particularly grateful to Vladimir for giving me the necessary tools so I would be an artist on my own.

我想這就是當(dāng)學(xué)生能夠獨(dú)當(dāng)一面時(shí)，偉大導(dǎo)師應(yīng)該達(dá)到的終極目標(biāo)。我尤其感激弗拉基米爾賦予了我能夠成為藝術(shù)家的必備之術(shù)。

穆斯塔基莫夫

俄羅斯鋼琴家

It is indeed the longest piano work by Scriabin and by far the most ambitious, at least duration wise, a truly demanding and very romantic work. This is an exclamation point of his Romantic period, after his third one he went crazy a little bit—after the third sonata, the language of his music changes, he becomes wonderfully crazy. But the third one is the peak of his romantic period. We’re very fortunate that Scriabin provided some narrative, some comments to every movement.

《第三鋼琴奏鳴曲》的確是斯克里亞賓最長(zhǎng)的鋼琴作品，也是迄今為止他最有野心，或者至少是最有遠(yuǎn)見(jiàn)的作品，這是一部要求極高且非常浪漫的作品。《第三鋼琴奏鳴曲》是他浪漫主義時(shí)期的一個(gè)“驚嘆號(hào)”，在創(chuàng)作過(guò)這部作品之后，他音樂(lè)的語(yǔ)言發(fā)生了變化，甚至開(kāi)始變得近乎癲狂?！兜谌撉僮帏Q曲》是斯克里亞賓浪漫時(shí)期的頂峰。幸運(yùn)的是，我們能夠看到斯克里亞賓對(duì)每個(gè)樂(lè)章都提供了一些文字性的敘述和評(píng)論。

斯克里亞賓

It’s possible to go and see—it was a work in progress; for example, the first movement was inspired by the ruins that he saw either in Paris or Rome. He also had a nickname for the Sonata, Gothic Sonata, so there’s a reference to Gothic architecture.

我建議聽(tīng)眾能夠把這些文字找來(lái)讀讀。這是一項(xiàng)逾待完善的作品；例如，斯克里亞賓說(shuō)第一樂(lè)章的靈感來(lái)自于他在巴黎或羅馬看到的廢墟?！兜谌撉僮帏Q曲》還有一個(gè)綽號(hào)叫作“哥特奏鳴曲”，斯克里亞賓參考了一座哥特式建筑來(lái)創(chuàng)作此曲。

What really captivated my attention the most was the third movement, which was for me the very center of the piece. He gave this beautiful commentary about the piece saying the stars were singing to each other. So it’s very cosmic, very universal, and truly, truly beautifully written. One of the most beautiful tunes he’s actually written.

真正吸引我的是第三樂(lè)章，對(duì)我來(lái)說(shuō)，它是整部作品的核心。斯克里亞賓對(duì)第三樂(lè)章進(jìn)行了優(yōu)美的評(píng)述，稱這段音樂(lè)像是星星們?cè)诨ハ喑?。所以這段音樂(lè)浩渺如宇宙，非常的遼闊幽美。這是斯克里亞賓最美妙的曲子之一。

穆斯塔基莫夫

俄羅斯鋼琴家

This is a good question—I think that the reality is, regardless of your age, regardless of your experience, you still get nervous. Sometimes it’s quite unpredictable: you thought that you won’t be, but you are, and sometimes you think you’ll be very nervous, but you are not. I think a very consolation thought for all of us is that we are in the same boat: we get nervous (and this is just natural). 

這是一個(gè)好問(wèn)題：我認(rèn)為實(shí)際上不管演奏者年齡經(jīng)歷如何，上臺(tái)時(shí)我們?nèi)耘f會(huì)感到緊張。這種緊張感有時(shí)是完全不可預(yù)知的：有時(shí)你自以為不會(huì)緊張，但往往事與愿違，有時(shí)你覺(jué)得緊張到爆，但事實(shí)恰非如此。我認(rèn)為所有人都會(huì)面臨緊張狀況（這是與生俱來(lái)的）。

穆斯塔基莫夫

Believe it or not, when you get nervous, you have extra adrenaline in your blood, you start to get excited, and the music starts to sound more edgy, more bright, more exciting, more vulnerable, and more sincere. So I wouldn’t necessarily put nervousness into this negative category—I think there are benefits in getting nervous. Let’s just change the word nervous to excited, and that would help to push through the stage fear and nervousness.

信不信由你，但當(dāng)緊張時(shí)，血液里額外的腎上腺素可以讓演奏者變得興奮，這會(huì)使音樂(lè)聽(tīng)起來(lái)更激動(dòng)人心，更明亮，更刺激，更敏感，又更真誠(chéng)。所以我可能不會(huì)把緊張歸為消極因素之列，非但如此，我還認(rèn)為緊張是有好處的。讓我們把緊張轉(zhuǎn)化為興奮的代名詞，這將有助于克服舞臺(tái)上的恐懼和焦慮。

穆斯塔基莫夫

俄羅斯鋼琴家

It’s a very complicated question, which I probably won’t be able to answer briefly. There are many, many details which are different from American piano education and Russian. It’s just historically very different. However, as you go and as you learn as much as you can in this country and the other country, you kind of absorb everything like a sponge. You, at some point, realize that regardless of the school, regardless of the country, regardless of the style of teaching, everyone’s aiming to the same direction, if that makes sense. 

這是一個(gè)非常復(fù)雜的問(wèn)題，我可能無(wú)法簡(jiǎn)而言之。在很多細(xì)節(jié)方面美國(guó)鋼琴教育與俄羅斯較為不同。但這只是歷史性上的差異。然而，當(dāng)我們身處異國(guó)求學(xué)時(shí)，我們會(huì)竭盡全力如海綿一般吸收所學(xué)。在某種程度上，你會(huì)意識(shí)到，無(wú)論學(xué)校、國(guó)家、教學(xué)方式如何，只要有意義，每個(gè)人的目標(biāo)都是一致的。

穆斯塔基莫夫

In other words, regardless of all the differences between the approaches and thoughts and you name it, we’re still aiming for the same—to be poetic, to create beautiful sound, to make the piano sing, to engage with music in the most sincere way, to connect with the audience, and to connect with the spirit of the composer. 

換句話說(shuō)，盡管這些教學(xué)方法和理念之間存在差異，但歸根結(jié)底都是殊途同歸。這一共同目標(biāo)我們可以將他定義為：讓音樂(lè)更富有詩(shī)意，創(chuàng)造美妙的聲音，使鋼琴歌唱，以最真誠(chéng)的方式與音樂(lè)對(duì)話，與聽(tīng)眾溝通，并與作曲家保持精神聯(lián)系。

So I would say that everything is kind of unified, everything is united. We are, again, in the same boat, we are aiming for the same: maybe from different roads, but the destination is exactly the same.

所以我想說(shuō)，一切都是統(tǒng)一的。同樣，我們是“一條繩上的螞蚱”，所有我們的目標(biāo)也是相同的：殊途同歸。

穆斯塔基莫夫

俄羅斯鋼琴家

Well, first of all, you don’t have to imagine anything. Truly great art, like Mussorgsky, doesn’t need any transcript, any translation. It lives and breathes on its own. However, we cannot ignore the fact that Mussorgsky was inspired by his friend’s art exhibition. His friend’s name is Hartmann. We don’t have all the paintings that Mussorgsky saw. I think only three remain—in other words, we know how only three paintings look like. It’s a pity that not all of them survived.

首先，你不需要想象任何事情。真正偉大的藝術(shù)，像穆索爾斯基，不需要任何文本來(lái)詮釋和解讀。音樂(lè)本身足以自圓其說(shuō)。然而，我們不能忽視穆索爾斯基的靈感來(lái)自于他朋友的藝術(shù)展覽這一事實(shí)。他朋友的名字叫哈特曼。如今我們沒(méi)有機(jī)會(huì)重睹穆索爾斯基看見(jiàn)到的所有畫(huà)作。音樂(lè)所描繪的畫(huà)作中如今只剩下三幅。我為它們不能全部留存下來(lái)而感到遺憾。

However, I think it’s an invitation for your imagination to kick in and for you to think on your own. I mean, this music does have a picturesque nature. For example, the Great Gate of Kiev, the very ending, it’s clearly an image of bells being struck in a few churches at the same time, so it’s a very celebratory scene of the bell usage. 

我認(rèn)為這些畫(huà)作只是一個(gè)契機(jī)，讓演奏者發(fā)揮想象力，自行思考。我的意思是，這種音樂(lè)確實(shí)保留著一種如畫(huà)的特性。例如《基輔大門(mén)》一曲中的結(jié)尾，很明顯是在描繪幾個(gè)教堂同時(shí)鳴鐘的畫(huà)面，鐘聲營(yíng)造出歡慶的景象。

But at the same time, when you pass through the first impression of the work, you see that it’s much deeper: it has so much depth and inner beauty that at some point you simply forget even the reference to the artwork.

但同時(shí)我們談及對(duì)這段音樂(lè)的第一印象時(shí)，我們會(huì)發(fā)現(xiàn)音樂(lè)實(shí)際上比它所描繪的畫(huà)面要深刻得多。音樂(lè)是如此的內(nèi)涵且深邃，以至于在某時(shí)我們甚至忘記了音樂(lè)與畫(huà)作本身的關(guān)聯(lián)。